Ooo, good post. Personally I prefer hanging out with foreigners because we have more in common and I don't have to explain my jokes/sarcasm/cultural norms as much...I also get bored of speaking Spanish all the time and want to speak English...half of my life is in Spanish, particularly work, so in my down time, I prefer speaking English. I have long conversations with Yasha (you know Yasha) with me speaking only English and him speaking only Spanish, even though we both speak pretty much fluently each other's languages. We're just more comfortable in our own...
Also, good point about what a 'real' Chilean experience is. I had a very broad Chilean upbringing with my ex-girlfriend with family members at both ends of the social scale. Now my experience is pretty much entirely with middle to upper class Chileans. The key word there is 'Chileans'...they're living 'real' Chilean lives because they're Chilean.. And I'm experiencing their Chilean lives. Just because they don't live in poverty doesn't mean their lives are any less 'real'.
A lot of people come to Chile (and other countries in South America) determined to have 'real' experiences. This often seems to mean living in conditions they wouldn't accept at home and being 'friends' with people they wouldn't be friends with at home. To me, a 'real' experience is having friends who share common values, experiences and usually education, not living a forced and false existence that you can get out of whenever you want. Not that friendship across social levels cannot happen, of course, because that's patently untrue, just that it's usual to fall in with a crowd of people who are similar to you.
And finally, apologies for making this an absurdly long comment but a song by Pulp comes to mind. Here are the lyrics :)
"She came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge, she studied sculpture at Saint Martin's College, that's where I, caught her eye. She told me that her Dad was loaded, I said "In that case I'll have a rum and coca-cola." She said "Fine." and in thirty seconds time she said,
"I want to live like common people, I want to do whatever common people do, I want to sleep with common people, I want to sleep with common people, like you."
Well what else could I do - I said "I'll see what I can do." I took her to a supermarket, I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere, so it started there. I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said, "Oh you're so funny." I said "yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here. Are you sure you want to live like common people, you want to see whatever common people see, you want to sleep with common people, you want to sleep with common people, like me." But she didn't understand, she just smiled and held my hand. Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job. Smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school. But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all.
You'll never live like common people, you'll never do what common people do, you'll never fail like common people, you'll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance and drink and screw, because there's nothing else to do.
Sing along with the common people, sing along and it might just get you through, laugh along with the common people, laugh along even though they're laughing at you, and the stupid things that you do. Because you think that poor is cool.
I want to live with common people"
Abby
· 8 months ago
I could not agree with you more! I think I would go crazy without my ex-pat friends. They get my situation like no one else here does.
It really bothers me too when people talk about "real" Chilean experiences. Why must we qualify something that is unique to each individual?
Rachel
· 8 months ago
Great post Kyle.
I have to admit there was one point in your post where I stiffened up a bit, ready for the (usually) inevitable La Dehesa bashing*.. and then felt validated after reading what you wrote. Yes, I live in a gated community. But, there are stray dogs, my car is not always shiny, my nana is part time, and we cook for ourselves! My neighbors are Chilean at least.. (No comment on the gardener or pool guy...) And as for the exclusive school, I work there. But I do try to make an effort.. my Spanish is improving drastically, I go out of my comfort zone and talk to anyone who will listen!
Just because the realities are different does not mean they are all not someone's reality. I think Chile has made me so appreciative of things I took for granted.. and opened up my eyes to how people from other countries living in North America might feel. Paradigm shift! Thanks for (yet another!) mind-stretching post.
*Not saying you bash La Dehesa, but there are some who love to...
Rachel
· 8 months ago
Also. Great song lyrics.
Leigh
· 8 months ago
I think it's important to strike a balance. Obviously, a foreigner who never hangs out with Chileans will developed a warped view of Chile. But I think it's a basic human necessity to interact with people who understand you, whether it's your Chilean Spanglish or the frustrations that can arise from living in a country where you weren't born. When you live the majority of your life in translation, it feels so good to be able to speak spontaneously and know another person will GET IT.
Also, I think fellow expats are generally really interesting people. All of them were brave enough to move halfway across the world, and all of them have fascinating stories about why they chose to do so. I think many people who live abroad develop a worldview that makes them open to considering other perspectives and trying new things, which really opens the door for shared experiences.
lydia
· 8 months ago
I was just thinking this afternoon how much I miss having gringa friends, well...that I actually get together with. (Why does everybody have to be so busy AND/OR in Santiago????)
A definite spot on post.
Carlos
· 8 months ago
After some time I realised my best Chilean friends have also been expats, like myself. My best gringo friends are also expats. My girlfriend is an expat. I would imagine it's easier after a while to make friends with other expats.
And great song someone quoted by one of my favourite bands. Now, check out the lyrics of this other song (it's in 'Argentinian Spanish'):
Vos no confiaste (2 Minutos)Vos no confiaste y te fuiste del país a buscar un futuro inmediato y mucho mejor.
Hace un año y medio ya que estas viviendo en Madrid lavando copas en un bar tratando de sobrevivir.
En el cuartito del hotel cuelgan de la pared tu diploma de arquitecto y el banderín de River Plate.
Vos no te diste cuenta que sos sapo de otro pozo, otro roñoso sudaca en la vieja Europa.
Vos no confiaste en la gente de tu país
Vos no esperaste a tu país
Vos no confiaste, Vos no esperaste
Margaret
· 8 months ago
One of the things I always missed most in the early days when I didn't know many English speakers was being able to crack and understand jokes. I used to tell my husband "I have a sense of humor in English!" On those rare occasions that the few of us around would have a gringa night out, we would bitch, complain, joke, and laugh til we cried and then all go home to our Chilean partners and be happy that we lived in Chile... Sometimes you just have to be able to relax and not feel that you have to explain or be explained to all the time!
Sharon
· 8 months ago
Hi
Great post.
For me it doesn't really matters if the person is a fellow expat or a local.
What matters is for us having a good chemistry and fun being together.
Many times I see expats hanging together for the wrong reasons - Just because they share the same culture and language. I am sure that back home they would never become friends.
Sharon
Anonymous
· 8 months ago
Hello, I've been reading some of your blog, and that of your blog group. I'm going to be in Chile for a month, so I've been trying to find out more about this country to no avail.
Luckily, I cam across your blog, and it has been helpful. I mean, I know that I'm getting the perspective of a non-Chilean, but it is interesting to me, because those are the thoughts that I would probably have. So thanks for your blogs. I haven't read them all, but the ones I did were really cute.
Emily
· 8 months ago
Great post. I pretty much agree with what everyone's said. I don't think you can say that you've really and truly lived immersed in a culture if you have no friends who are natives of that culture. Day-to-day interactions give you a good idea of a culture, but you're probably not having in-depth discussions with the cashier at the supermarket, and those discussions are, in my view, are essential to really having as full an understanding as possible, which contributes to the whole "real experience."
I think a lot of us, myself included, use "La Dehesa" as shorthand for people - often from the US - who are sent here by their companies or governments and don't really integrate into Chilean societies. A lot of these people are career expats, always on the move, and it's somewhat understandable that they're not going to make the same effort with language/relationships/culture knowing that they'll be on the move again in a couple years as someone who's independently choosing to make a life here might do. That said, it's important to remember that just because someone lives comfortably doesn't necessarily mean their experience is less Chilean or real (I touched on this in a post at some point as well). I mean hell, I live a far cushier life than the majority of Chileans, and I would say that I have a pretty authentic Chilean experience! I especially liked Matt's point that purposely living in squalor because "it's Latin America" or "it's a developing country" isn't particularly authentic either. Few Chilean would live like that if they had the money to do otherwise!
And yes, expat friends have a very special role, whether it be reminiscing over shared childhood memories (I did not grow up watching El Chavo), cracking jokes (although I am proud to say that after 2 years I am at least a little funny in Spanish) or sharing the occasional frustration with this country.
Lisa B.
· 8 months ago
The stuff about the immigration system reminded me about my ex-mother-in-law's experience with residency status in Mexico. When she remarked about what a huge hassle it was to one official, he said "Your country is very hard for us to live in as well." Which is very true. I've known several foreigners who married Americans and went through our residency or citizenship process, and they all described it as a nightmare. So I'm not sure if that part of your experience is uniquely Chilean!
All Comments
Also, good point about what a 'real' Chilean experience is. I had a very broad Chilean upbringing with my ex-girlfriend with family members at both ends of the social scale. Now my experience is pretty much entirely with middle to upper class Chileans. The key word there is 'Chileans'...they're living 'real' Chilean lives because they're Chilean.. And I'm experiencing their Chilean lives. Just because they don't live in poverty doesn't mean their lives are any less 'real'.
A lot of people come to Chile (and other countries in South America) determined to have 'real' experiences. This often seems to mean living in conditions they wouldn't accept at home and being 'friends' with people they wouldn't be friends with at home. To me, a 'real' experience is having friends who share common values, experiences and usually education, not living a forced and false existence that you can get out of whenever you want. Not that friendship across social levels cannot happen, of course, because that's patently untrue, just that it's usual to fall in with a crowd of people who are similar to you.
And finally, apologies for making this an absurdly long comment but a song by Pulp comes to mind. Here are the lyrics :)
"She came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge,
she studied sculpture at Saint Martin's College,
that's where I,
caught her eye.
She told me that her Dad was loaded,
I said "In that case I'll have a rum and coca-cola."
She said "Fine."
and in thirty seconds time she said,
"I want to live like common people,
I want to do whatever common people do,
I want to sleep with common people,
I want to sleep with common people,
like you."
Well what else could I do -
I said "I'll see what I can do."
I took her to a supermarket,
I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere,
so it started there.
I said pretend you've got no money,
she just laughed and said,
"Oh you're so funny."
I said "yeah?
Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here.
Are you sure you want to live like common people,
you want to see whatever common people see,
you want to sleep with common people,
you want to sleep with common people,
like me."
But she didn't understand,
she just smiled and held my hand.
Rent a flat above a shop,
cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool,
pretend you never went to school.
But still you'll never get it right,
cos when you're laid in bed at night,
watching roaches climb the wall,
if you call your Dad he could stop it all.
You'll never live like common people,
you'll never do what common people do,
you'll never fail like common people,
you'll never watch your life slide out of view,
and dance and drink and screw,
because there's nothing else to do.
Sing along with the common people,
sing along and it might just get you through,
laugh along with the common people,
laugh along even though they're laughing at you,
and the stupid things that you do.
Because you think that poor is cool.
I want to live with common people"
It really bothers me too when people talk about "real" Chilean experiences. Why must we qualify something that is unique to each individual?
I have to admit there was one point in your post where I stiffened up a bit, ready for the (usually) inevitable La Dehesa bashing*.. and then felt validated after reading what you wrote. Yes, I live in a gated community. But, there are stray dogs, my car is not always shiny, my nana is part time, and we cook for ourselves! My neighbors are Chilean at least.. (No comment on the gardener or pool guy...) And as for the exclusive school, I work there. But I do try to make an effort.. my Spanish is improving drastically, I go out of my comfort zone and talk to anyone who will listen!
Just because the realities are different does not mean they are all not someone's reality. I think Chile has made me so appreciative of things I took for granted.. and opened up my eyes to how people from other countries living in North America might feel. Paradigm shift! Thanks for (yet another!) mind-stretching post.
*Not saying you bash La Dehesa, but there are some who love to...
Also, I think fellow expats are generally really interesting people. All of them were brave enough to move halfway across the world, and all of them have fascinating stories about why they chose to do so. I think many people who live abroad develop a worldview that makes them open to considering other perspectives and trying new things, which really opens the door for shared experiences.
A definite spot on post.
And great song someone quoted by one of my favourite bands. Now, check out the lyrics of this other song (it's in 'Argentinian Spanish'):
Vos no confiaste (2 Minutos)Vos no confiaste
y te fuiste del país
a buscar un futuro
inmediato y mucho mejor.
Hace un año y medio ya
que estas viviendo en Madrid
lavando copas en un bar
tratando de sobrevivir.
En el cuartito del hotel
cuelgan de la pared
tu diploma de arquitecto
y el banderín de River Plate.
Vos no te diste cuenta
que sos sapo de otro pozo,
otro roñoso sudaca
en la vieja Europa.
Vos no confiaste
en la gente de tu país
Vos no esperaste a tu país
Vos no confiaste,
Vos no esperaste
Great post.
For me it doesn't really matters if the person is a fellow expat or a local.
What matters is for us having a good chemistry and fun being together.
Many times I see expats hanging together for the wrong reasons - Just because they share the same culture and language. I am sure that back home they would never become friends.
Sharon
Luckily, I cam across your blog, and it has been helpful. I mean, I know that I'm getting the perspective of a non-Chilean, but it is interesting to me, because those are the thoughts that I would probably have. So thanks for your blogs. I haven't read them all, but the ones I did were really cute.
I think a lot of us, myself included, use "La Dehesa" as shorthand for people - often from the US - who are sent here by their companies or governments and don't really integrate into Chilean societies. A lot of these people are career expats, always on the move, and it's somewhat understandable that they're not going to make the same effort with language/relationships/culture knowing that they'll be on the move again in a couple years as someone who's independently choosing to make a life here might do. That said, it's important to remember that just because someone lives comfortably doesn't necessarily mean their experience is less Chilean or real (I touched on this in a post at some point as well). I mean hell, I live a far cushier life than the majority of Chileans, and I would say that I have a pretty authentic Chilean experience! I especially liked Matt's point that purposely living in squalor because "it's Latin America" or "it's a developing country" isn't particularly authentic either. Few Chilean would live like that if they had the money to do otherwise!
And yes, expat friends have a very special role, whether it be reminiscing over shared childhood memories (I did not grow up watching El Chavo), cracking jokes (although I am proud to say that after 2 years I am at least a little funny in Spanish) or sharing the occasional frustration with this country.